A Conversation With Nada Surf

Nada Surf is one of those bands that’s been blown off by the mass populous as a one hit wonder. You may remember the anthem of high school angst named “Popular” that MTV latched on to and radio played more than Bush’s “Glycerine.” As great of a song as it was, the overexposure boxed them in much like “Bittersweet Symphony” did for The Verve in the States. Since then, they’ve been dumped by their major label, become extremely popular in Europe, found a home at Barsuk, and become one of my favorite bands. I sat down after work the other day and gave frontman Matthew Caws a call. I had screwed up the time for the interview, but Matthew was gracious enough to let me call a bit later. For what it’s worth, I present to you our conversation.

Circle Six Magazine: Right off the bat: Whatcha been listening to?

Matthew Caws: Beanie Sigel

C6: Oh yeah?

MC: The new one I just got, but I really like this one called The Reason from 2001. Very, very good. A little more “bitches and hoes” than I like, you know. I kind of like to avoid that part of it, but there’s no getting around the guns. That’s just part of the territory no matter what’s going on. I have been listening to a lot of Jay-Z and Biggie you know.

C6: Dude, I’ve been hooked on The Grey Album lately.

MC: You know, I’ve only heard it a couple times. I should go back to that.

C6: It’s brilliant. Listening to The Black Album, it’s kind of like I can get out some aggression listening to it.

MC: Yeah yeah.

C6: I feel all hard core like the first scene in Office Space.

MC: (laughs) I don’t remember that one.

C6: Oh it’s just a really white guy trying to be gangsta…anyway. But when you listen to the Grey Album, since it’s the Beatles, it’s kind of calming.

MC: Right. I haven’t heard them, but there’s one that’s a mashup with Slanted and Enchanted.

C6: Yeah, that’s The Slack Album. It’s got to have a witty name.

MC: And what about the Weezer one?

C6: Yeah. There’s the Black and Blue Album.

MC: (laughs)

C6: Yeah, exactly. And then there’s the Double Black Album, which is Jay-Z and Metallica.

MC: Oh my god.

C6: That was really the “jump the shark” moment in Jay-Z mashup history. The Weezer one I still haven’t heard, but the Pavement album is really, really cool.

MC: Speaking of Metallica and The Black Album – I’m sorry to even bore you with this – but we were staying in a hotel in London that had these lights that were particularly egg-shaped. And everyone was mad at me because every time we walked through the lobby I kept singing (mimicking the chorus to Enter Sandman) “Eggsit lights / very nice / This hotel / was decorated very well,”

C6: That’s hilarious.

MC: It was ridiculous … So I’ve listened to that and I’ve been listening to the M.I.A. record quite a bit. And…um…the first song on the new Teenage Fanclub record. It’s called “It’s All In My Mind” and it’s a great song. You know, I fall for records, but what tends to happen to me more often than not is like flipping out over one song.

C6: Yeah, you’re a…a uh…oh what do they call that…um…a girl. Yeah.

MC: (laughing)

C6: I think that’s a female trait, dude.

MC: Yeah, that’s right, well … (he repeats my super witty comment) “you’re a whatta they call that…oh yeah, a girl” Yeah, totally. No, but I’ll listen to one song like 30 times.

C6: That’s definitely a girl thing. I was going to mention this later, but since we’re talking about girls and music. The only way my wife knows your band is not because of “Popular” and that whole thing, but because I played your last album about 40 times on our honeymoon. Not as porn music or anything like that – just driving around town. So in her mind, that’s the soundtrack to our honeymoon.

MC: Oh that’s cool. So you played the whole album over and over again? That’s pretty manly, eh?

C6: Ha ha, you know me – over and over again. No, we had a few hours of driving to do…anyway.

MC: Well that’s awesome. It always makes me happy if anyone ever gets stuck on the record.

C6: Well I try not to kiss people’s asses when I interview, but it’s a brilliant album.

MC: Right on.

C6: And – let me kiss up some more here – the follow-up that everybody’s so tensely waiting to see how great it’s going to be, it’s really good, dude.

MC: Thanks. I really feel good about it.

C6: I gotta admit that I was kind of expecting to be let down because I had built Let Go up in my head so much. But I have to say, it’s great, dude. It’s a really solid album.
MC: Well thanks. You know, I had the same fear because we are quite fond of Let Go. We like it a lot.

C6: Sure.

MC: But, also, just the fact that it did get that reaction from a lot of people, we’re like, “Oh shit. Here it comes. We liked the second more than the first. We like the third more than the second. And the honeymoon’s over.”

C6: Right, right.

MC: So it was pretty scary. People ask if we felt pressure on the first album because you know, it’s the first album. Or, “Did you feel pressure on your second since you had that big hit?” “Did you feel pressure on your third?” But this one was the most pressure.

C6: You know, I would have thought it would be that way just because Let Go was such a phenomenal album. But it seems like – if I can psychoanalyze you for a bit – it seems like High/Low was the debut and people flipped over the one single or whatever. And then Proximity was kind of the “F You” album to the label. I’m not sure if it was intentional, but that’s what it turned out to be.

MC: Right. Well we were just trying to hold the course. Not to –

C6: Just be yourself.

MC: Yeah, exactly.

C6: Labels hate that. What’s the deal with major labels finding something good and then trying to change it?

MC: I know. I remember back when “Popular” had run its course and we all knew what the second single was going to be. It was a song called “Sleep” and everyone agreed. And then at the last moment, the radio department of all people – who you’d expect would be people who really love music – they were like, “No that song’s too weird.” And our reaction was, “Well our first single was kind of weird.”

C6: “Popular” was one of the weirdest songs on the radio at the time.

MC: Yeah, so what’s the problem? And furthermore, all the more reason to keep it up, right? If weird’s their thing, then let’s do it. But they went with a different song and kinda forced the issue. So what is it with major labels?

C6: Well, Barsuk seems to be treating you nice.

MC: They are great! They’re like real people you’d want to talk to whose opinions you really cherish.

C6: You get the feeling that it’s a label run by people in bands, you know, people who really dig music.

MC: Absolutely. I’ve mentioned this before, but whenever people ask me about Barsuk, I just have to talk about this one thing that they do. It’s a small thing, but I think it’s pretty representative of them and kind of moving. When you’re on Barsuk, every single concert you ever play in the States, you get eight free CDs.

C6: Really?

MC: Which means that every night you play a show, you will always have gas money, you will always have money for food. It’s 80 bucks. You’re always going to make $80. I think it’s a really good gesture, a very kind of caring gesture for them to make.

C6: Have you had any of the major guys like Elektra come back to you?

MC: Yeah, I’m not sure who it was – and I’m probably not supposed to say even if I did know – but back with “Inside of Love.” There was a moment when it looked like it was about to pop on the radio because a few stations were starting to push it. And right at that moment we got a couple of phone calls.

C6: I remember seeing it on Fuse or one of those “we’re cooler than MTV” channels. I live in New Orleans, and New Orleans is a shitty radio market. Nobody plays anything if it’s not in the Top 40. I was thinking that “Inside of Love” would’ve been a great song for people to be exposed to, but I figured it would never happen. Which it’s probably better that way in the long run, don’t you think?

MC: Yeah, on a certain level. I mean, why get caught up in all that shit again unless it was really going to work. But I don’t think it would ever. At the most, we would just crack it for a little bit and then be back in the same boat where we’re playing radio shows to try and preserve it. Whatever. I’m not sorry.

C6: I wouldn’t think you would be.

MC: But yeah, we started getting phone calls when the single started to get a little attention, and it was really fun – not in any vindictive way – but when our manager would say, “Hey, so-and-so called. Do you want to meet with them?” And I’d just be like, “Nope.”

C6: It seems to me that, without all the interference from a major label, after the whole Proximity thing happened, that the band became something special that might not have happened if they had their fingers in it the whole time.

MC: That’s very true, and I also think – I don’t know if I’ll be able to express this in a logical way –

C6: Hey, have at it.

MC: Ha ha, “have at it.” I love that expression. But, like, we’re doing well, but the fact that our career never jumped up to the level that I just never have to worry about money again, because I worry about money all the time.

C6: You mean you’re not an uber-rich rock star?

MC: Right, exactly. But that’s what I mean. The fact that it’s still real life, like a real job with real concerns, I think keeps it more reflective of every day life. You know, if we’re going through struggles in our personal lives, then there may be an urgency to the music that maybe we wouldn’t have if we had that bank account that keeps you from real life worries. We’re not in space. It’s the same way it’s always been, and I think that’s…um…I’m trying desperately to not say, “keep it real.”

C6: Ha ha! Keep it real, brother. Or Dog. Or whatever. You insert the appropriate pronoun.

MC: I don’t think I’ve ever called anyone “dog” in my life.

C6: Well I went through this black phase for about eight years after Straight Outta Compton was released.

MC: Right. You were hoggin’ the block every night.

(To the best of my knowledge, “hoggin’” is a term that describes a group of males searching for overweight women to see who can score with the largest one. I’m pretty sure that’s not what Matthew is referring to here. I’ve certainly never taken part in such activity. To be honest, the tapes a little fuzzy there, and I’m not even sure that’s what he said. Anyway…we continue…)

C6: Yeah, I hate to admit it, but I actually poured out my 40 when Tupac died.

MC: (laughs) Oh my god, that’s awesome!

C6: So you’re not going to offend me if you slip in a “dog” every now and then.

MC: That’s hilarious. I’m so confused with rap sometimes because like Biggie and this guy Beanie Sigel as well, no matter what they’re singing about, even if they’re just running down the list of ammo that they’re carrying, they just sound kinda like teddy bears. Like big and huggable. I like ‘em.

C6: Well it helped out that Biggie was pushin’ 300.

MC: Yeah it just made his voice sound…

C6: He just sounds lovable.

MC: (laughs) He just sounds like a fat kid.

C6: That’s hilarious. Ok, let’s see. Where was I? As I was preparing for this interview, I read something you said about finding the “metal” in music that’s not “metal”.

MC: Oh wow. I’m sure I stole that from someone else.

C6: Well it struck me because, as I’m listening to the new album, it all sounds so “in your face” and up-front but in a very low-key, melodic way. I’m not really sure what I’m trying to say. That’s not even a question.

MC: Oh yeah. I know what you’re saying. That’s absolutely true. I’m glad you hear it that way because that’s kind of what we were going for in that, at the end of the day, I really like vocals that go down easy. Just a little lazy, a little behind the beat, with phrasing that’s just right and rhymes that feel good. On the other hand I really like it to totally rock, and I really like chord progressions that don’t feel that easy. You know, a little distension.

C6: Right. If it’s too typical, like a 1-5-6-4 or whatever…

MC: Right.

C6: …you know it’s going to sell to the radio, but then there’s going to be those people that just never touch it because they’ve heard it 10,000 times before.

MC: Exactly.

C6: Do you think the whole melodic trend just comes with age? I mean, I know when I first started playing music it was all punk and hardcore, but now whenever I want to write something it’s acoustic and falsetto.

MC: Well, for me, it was always the same. I mean, even the Ramones were so incredibly poppy and melodic. My first favorite band was The Who. So I’ve always liked the really sing-songy things from the beginning. But then at the same time there’s metal. I mean, what’s more exciting than something that rips up the speakers a little bit? That’s a good feeling.

C6: Exactly. Well moving along with the “already written down” questions. Do you have anything that you’re really into other than music? And I have written down here, “like Civil War History or your vintage Vespa collection?”

MC: Right. Yeah yeah. Well, I have one vintage Vespa.

C6: Oh you have one?

MC: Yeah, a 1980 PX 125.

C6: Dude, I’m about to buy a 150. A Serie America. It’s that avocado green color.

MC: Is that a vintage one?

C6: Yeah, as far as the body style and everything, it’s supposed to be closer to the older ones.

MC: But it’s one of the new ones?

C6: Yeah.

MC: Oh, you’re doing the right thing. The newer ones are just more sensible –

(This is the point in the conversation that his phone cut out on us. I redialed a few times and cursed a lot. He’s got a very short and pleasant voice mail of him whistling the first few notes of the Sanford and Son theme song. Ringing. Ringing. And we’re back…)

MC: What was I saying?

C6: You were saying that the newer Vespas are more sensible.

MC: Oh yeah, just because in the city with a stop sign at every block, it sucks because your left wrist has to go through the gears. But that’s cool. As for my passions other than music, I was always into amateur self-help. It’s like only when I finally get my act together will the other hobbies have a chance to flower, because until then I’m always like, “Gotta pay the phone bill. Now it’s disconnected. I have some money in the bank, but it may be in the wrong account. But if I paid it, it wouldn’t be disconnected. Now I owe a $50 fee. That makes me hungry. I need a sandwich. I’m tired. Don’t wanna get depressed. Don’t wanna get depressed. So I’m gonna take a walk.” You know what I mean? I feel like a treadmill of just endless trying to keep up and just get it together and stop wasting time. So I’m still just working on lacing up the shoes here.

C6: So are you still doing anything with the In My Room DVD?

(In My Room was a DVD project Matt had been working on that would have different singers and musicians playing songs from their bedrooms. Very close. Very intimate. And, evidently, very back burner.)

MC: Oh man, I wish I were. So many projects. I look back tearfully over the number of projects I wanted to start. There’s one I was thinking about called Life Stories. I went so far as to put an ad in the National Enquirer fifteen years ago. I put an add saying, “Life Stories wanted. Three to ten pages. Just tell it like it is. Anonymity guaranteed. Share of profits if published.” My idea was…people who read the Enquirer are not people who write for NPR or the New Yorker. They want to give it spin. But if you just got like every day normal people to just describe their life story. What happened? Even if nothing happened, that’d be really interesting.

C6: Dude, that’s funny. The premise isn’t as funny as the fact that you took out an ad in the National Enquirer.

MC: I know, right? I got these great stories, but not enough of them. The thing is, the Enquirer’s like $400 a week. It’s like the most expensive…uh…um…what do you call it…

C6: Uh…(slowly) publication?

MC: (laughs) Classified. It’s the most expensive classified in the country. So I took out ads in like Ladies Home Journal and all these other magazines, and didn’t get a single response. Whereas, in the Enquirer…like one of them, this woman wrote that she was happily married etc. And her husband was going to India every year for three months to visit family. And she had just recently found these photos in a shoebox in the back of a closet of his other family.

C6: Nice.

MC: He had another wife, other kids, everything. There was another one who had been stabbed by her husband and she stabbed him back. She wrote me and asked, “should I tell this story?” And I said, “Yes! Please!” And then she writes back two weeks later like, “I’m sorry. I sold the rights to a movie company.” So I never did that project, but if I ever had the cash, I would love to have an ad running in the Enquirer for like a year and get all this crazy stuff. And then publish it in this sort of coffee table book where you leave in any idiosyncrasies or mistakes in grammar and syntax and just leave it all untouched.

C6: That’s brilliant. Full of just horrible grammar and bad punctuation, just however the person wrote it.

MC: Yeah exactly. Maybe you’d fix things up a little bit.

C6: Right, not to tool on the person who wrote it, but just so it’s real. I see what you’re saying.

MC: Exactly. No, I know you weren’t saying that. I’m probably just being defensive.

C6: That’s another girl trait.

MC: I’m such a girl.

C6: Well, I have that one so I can’t say anything.

MC: No, it’s true. I’m very nervous. I’ve never hit anyone.

C6: I’ve never hit anyone. Well, I got in a fight in junior high. I kicked this guy, and then somehow he got me in a chokehold, and the fight was basically over. And I just felt like a nerd because now he’s not the kind of guy you’d want to admit you lost a fight to.

MC: Well, my sister and I were mugged by girls when we were kids. We were coming back from the grocery store. I was 7, she was 10, and these 4 bad-ass 14 year olds were like, “Give us the groceries.” And we were like, “AAAAhhhhhhh!!”

C6: “Bad-ass 14 year olds.”

MC: I’m telling you, they were bad-ass!

C6: Moving right along. I have to mention that you’ve read the book Wicked.

MC: Oh yes.

C6: I want to mention that because I have a friend at the magazine named Robert who loves that book.

MC: Oh, it’s fantastic. It’s so great. I love another look at someone who you think is supposed to be one way and it turns it around.

C6: It kind of turns her into an anti-hero type thing, eh?

MC: Yeah yeah.

C6: Hey, what’s with the Lenny Bruce reference on the new album?

MC: Well, I tried to change that for a while because of the R.E.M songs. But you feel like a dork to change a reference to avoid it sounding like something else when, in fact, it’s the real thing. So I never did.

(At this point he has to click over to check his other line. It’s probably some other magazine dork calling at the wrong time. Or maybe it’s some magazine dork calling at the right time and I’m the only one who screwed it up. I pass the on-hold time by trying to mimick the whistle on Matthew’s voice mail. But I digress.)

MC: Anyway. I had a Lenny Bruce album in the corner. Like, let’s say you’re at a doctor’s office and you’re tense about the appointment. Maybe that magazine becomes…I don’t even know how to explain it. You know how you can sometimes anthropomorphize without even meaning to? This picture of Lenny Bruce had kind of become my conscious. I was asking myself some big questions about what did I have the guts to do about the problem that I had in front of me. And I was staring at this picture and I know that he was a pretty fearless guy…

C6: Lenny Bruce was your conscious, dude?

MC: You know what I mean?

C6: Yeah, I get what you’re saying. Look, it sounds like you need to go so I can wrap up here.

MC: Yeah, if that’s cool.

C6: No problem. Dude thanks for the time.

MC: No big deal, man. I hope we can make it down to New Orleans and maybe play the Circle Bar or something.

C6: I hope you do too. The last time you played down here was with Death Cab and I missed that show.

MC: Well maybe we’ll get down there soon.

And, with that, that chat with Matthew Caws was over. I’m not sure what publishing this conversation will do for his album sales, but it was fun nonetheless. Nada Surf’s new album is entitled The Weight Is A Gift and is scheduled to be in stores on Sept. 12. If you’ve not kept up with the band since the explosion of “Popular”, I suggest you get your hands on the new one as well as Let Go and The Proximity Effect – two brilliant albums that haven’t gotten anywhere near the attention they deserve. Check out their website www.nadasurf.com for tour information and, if you’d like a taste of Weight before you buy it, we’ve got an mp3 of “Do It Again” for you.

by Jacob Taylor